Remodeling Nightmare | Episode 55 | Trades Secrets: Contractor Marketing Podcast

Amanda Joyce:

Hi, welcome back. It’s been a minute.

Devon Hayes:

It has been a minute. It’s been busy. Hopefully all of you guys are getting ready for a busy season now as we’re kind of heading into the spring. It’s officially April, so hopefully it’s warming up wherever you are and you’re getting ready to dive into all things that keep you busy. We know San Antonio was just crushed by hail, so all you roofers out there, it’s coming.

Amanda Joyce:

It’s coming. You guys even got a tiny bit in Denver, didn’t you?

Devon Hayes:

We did. It was soft, like it … Little.

Amanda Joyce:

It was a tease, but it’s a sign of what’s to come.

Devon Hayes:

Yeah, I think so. All right, so excited to be back today. Oh my gosh, I have lost sleep over this topic. I have dreamed about talking about it. Nightmare remodel and lessons learned for contractors out there. When you’re the good guys, what you can do, and what I’ve learned as a homeowner, but also as a marketer and how I want to position the good guys, the good contractors out there. We’ve got a handful of you guys as clients and we love you and I wish you were in Denver because I would not have gone through the torture that I am still enduring. Cody and I have now referred to it as the gestational period of our remodel because it was supposed to be 6 to 8 weeks and Monday, which is in 5 days will be week number 20.

Amanda Joyce:

And we’re not done. We’re not done yet.

Devon Hayes:

We’re not done. Yes.

Amanda Joyce:

Thank you guys for tuning in. So we’re really excited to jump this one off and explain to you why Devon’s not a Karen and how you can position yourself to attract people like Devon who are going to be an educated buyer and are going to sing your praises when you deliver great results.

Devon Hayes:

Welcome to Trade Secrets where we demystify digital marketing to help contractors get the most bang for their marketing bucks.

Amanda Joyce:

This is for you if you’re a contractor looking for actionable marketing insights.

Devon Hayes:

Learn from home services industry experts to elevate your business through simplified marketing strategies.

Amanda Joyce:

Let’s dive into today’s trade secret.

Devon Hayes:

Yeah, it really taught me a lot about exactly how a contractor can set themselves apart in the market, questions that I would ask the next time around. To kind of set the scene, set the stage this remodel is, it’s not a small one, it’s about $125,000 remodel. And it was taking a curved staircase and it was carpeted, we wanted hardwood stairs. That was the first part. And then some built ins at the entryway, little wainscoting, redoing the primary bathroom, updating the pantry, adding cabinets and butcher block shelves above, and then just a cabinet and a new sink in the laundry room. So nothing crazy here. The change order was a front door. We got a new kind of double front door and then we added that laundry room piece on the back end, because we were like, “Oh, it’s just a cabinet.” And we had a lot of countertop leftover from the slab that we bought. So simple, easy change orders. The laundry room is the size of a postage stamp, so nothing complicated there.

So setting the scene for what the remodel is and the change orders. And here’s the thing is that we didn’t expect this to happen overnight. I was shocked when the contractor said a week for the pantry, a week for the laundry room and then six weeks for the primary bathroom, which is really big. And like I said, Monday is week 20, so we really did not go cheap on this. We had plans drawn up, we had a designer come out, we wanted to do it right, working in this field and hearing nightmare stories. Also, not to mention my dad’s a contractor, but he’s retired and has done this for 20 years. I thought I was an educated buyer. I thought I knew the questions to ask.

And what I have learned is I have countless blog topics for you contractors out there and just what I would do differently and then maybe what you guys are already doing differently in your businesses and I just don’t know it. But maybe you can have some takeaways here on how you’re like, “Oh yeah, we totally do that. We should tell our customers we do that.” Because these are things that as educated as I felt I was on selecting a contractor and choosing someone and not just taking the glowing referral that they came from. I read through all their reviews, 4.7 stars with 60 reviews. I mean for a contractor, I thought that was great. Oh my god, I am trying not to ramble. I’m trying to keep this concise on some takeaways here. So maybe Amanda, you want to guide me because I will just bitch about this.

Amanda Joyce:

Yes. So I like how you brought up reviews. So let’s start there. Your first look when you were excited and weren’t really digging too deep because they had a glowing review from a friend was just to look at the highest most relevant reviews. They looked great. You moved on. Then when you started to be unhappy and you dug in more, what was it that you noticed?

Devon Hayes:

I don’t know. Probably month four into, or month three, I started looking at … The communication with the contractor, it was always, we would get an instant response when we would send a text. It was very reactive, never any proactive communication. And the tone was very, very accusatory.

Amanda Joyce:

Defensive.

Devon Hayes:

Yeah, very defensive. And there also seemed to be pulling the wool over my eyes, installing an L-shaped cabinet but then you forgot to do the built-in in that back corner and then telling me that that gets installed in a tiny space later. Things that didn’t make sense. I just kept feeling like I was being talked down to or there wasn’t transparency. It was like, “Oh no, yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s great. Oh no, that’s how you do it. Oh no, you just don’t understand construction. That’s how it’s built.” Maybe. Okay, fine. But the tone was really, really pretty nasty.

So I started looking at their one-star reviews and then when I read the reviews and I read the responses to those reviews, I was like, “Oh shit, this is how they’re talking to me.” And the responses to the review and the reviews themselves that were one-star was like, “They’re talking to me like I’m stupid and I don’t know what I’m saying. They’re making this my fault somehow. Yes, we had a change order and I’m not complaining about the time. I’m complaining about X, Y and Z, and then the responses are they were so aggressive.” It’s exactly what I’ve been experiencing.

So I think a takeaway there, number one, contractors, when you respond to your reviews that are poor, that are one-star, it’s construction. I know that stuff happens. My husband owns a roofing company. I know things happen that are sometimes out of your control, but how you deal with them and respond, homeowners are going to take note of that. I don’t think any of us expect perfection from any service we receive or any business. I think we’re all just down to earth and you know shit happens. But how you treat people and how you respond when things go south is something I will never, ever, ever overlook again. No matter how many five-star reviews there are, I will forevermore go to your one-star reviews and your two-star reviews and I will see if you respond and how you respond and what the tone is because I should have assumed that … I should have looked for a pattern there.

Amanda Joyce:

So I think it’s really critical. We always talk on this show and to all of our clients about why reviews are so important and we’re always focusing on trying to get those five-star reviews, but if you are … You’re a business, you’re going to get the negative ones. And so keeping that in mind, keeping in mind that that is a great opportunity to shine and show what makes you different, how you are going to take the accountability. And probably anyone that’s taking the time to listen to this and is trying to grow their business and scale and attract the right customer, their natural reaction to a negative review would be the opposite of what you’re seeing Devon.

But just keep that in mind. What we’re really going to try to get out of this whole episode is talking to you about how to position yourself in all of your online visibility and all of your marketing materials as hopefully the good guy that tries to solve your client’s problems. And that’s a great place to start. That’s a really authentic place to show who you are as a company and how you show up when stuff isn’t right.

Devon Hayes:

Exactly. This is a great segue into the next kind of portion that ties into it. So how did they get all those five-star reviews if my experience has been so bad? Well, what I noticed the pattern there was someone’s name is very specifically named every single time when there’s a five-star review and the head of that crew is the one that kind of did our primary bathroom, that portion of the project. That portion of the project while slow, I don’t care, the work has been impeccable, it has been beautiful, it has been seamless. And the other work has been done by anybody else besides that guy. And the owner of this company actually said to me, “Well that’s the A crew. We do have to tear out all those stairs that we just did for you. They do look like garbage. You’re right. But we sent our C crew so that’s why, but we’re going to send our A crew now.” As a homeowner …

Amanda Joyce:

Doesn’t really sit well.

Devon Hayes:

So it was okay on my curved staircase where every single stair is a different size, different shape, custom, to send your C crew that they then have to spend six weeks doing and then tear out again. So when you communicate that to a customer, that might be true. Again, my husband being in roofing, he’s like, “Sometimes you do have a crew that has more attention to detail. Their performance is always great, but not every crew is going to perform the same.” That might be true, but contractors, if you’ve got a C squad, what does that do for your brand? Also, how you communicate that. Maybe massage the language a bit because telling me that you sent your shittiest crew to my house doesn’t feel great.

Amanda Joyce:

Over Christmas.

Devon Hayes:

Over Christmas, who they started the week of Thanksgiving, worked all the way until 8:00 PM on December 23rd, and then all of that had to be torn out the week of New Year’s. Doesn’t sit right and then to later tell me, I can’t hold that over your head when I ask for a schedule on the remaining work. Our contractor clients that I shared some of this with, they were like, “Ah, stop payment. What are you doing? Call an attorney.” The owner was so … I just felt he had integrity. He’s like, “We messed up. Please give us a chance to make it right and show you how we really do things.” And again, understanding that this is construction. Stuff happens. My husband and I were both compelled to be like, “You know what? I’ve messed up with clients before and it’s broken my heart and I’m so grateful when I have that opportunity to make it right.” So that’s what we did. The owner, it was a good conversation and we just wanted to get through it at this point.

So anyways, so crews, how you communicate your A squad versus your D squad? Do you have a D squad? Why do you have a D squad? I’m sure that’s costing you money as an owner or do you just assume that your customer isn’t educated enough to know the difference between good work and bad work? So I don’t know how I could vet that out as a homeowner in the future, but as a business owner, I wonder your contractors, I don’t know. Is that normal? Is that normal to have a crappy crew that you just send over? I don’t know. I don’t know how that works.

Anyway, so yeah, I was just asking contractors at the end of the day, I don’t know how you prep for that. I don’t know that that’s great for your brand when you have a really bad crew and I don’t know if you tell customers that you’re sending a bad crew to their house, but don’t worry, I’ll send the good crew to fix it. That doesn’t feel great as a homeowner, you feel unimportant. And it might not be a new addition and it might not be a $500,000 project, but it’s still hard-earned money, it’s still expensive and we still really tried to do this right and not go cheap with it. So I would love contractors, tell me, I want to know is that normal? Like you tell me.

Amanda Joyce:

I think one of the other things that is important for us to talk about, because I’ve experienced it just sitting here working with you on a daily basis. We’re on client calls, we’re Zooming, we’re doing things, the door knocking and the questions in the middle of the day for things that should have been known and communicated by a project manager. I know that’s been a big stress point for you and thank God you work at home because if you weren’t there, there would’ve been no one to answer the questions.

Devon Hayes:

Yes. So project management or on-site supervision, I will forevermore shout from the mountaintops, “What’s the expectation?” I don’t know what’s reasonable. I don’t know what’s not reasonable. I do know that no less than 8 times a day for 19 weeks, I was interrupted constantly by electricians, painters, plumbers, drywallers, carpenters, tile workers, glass measurers, I mean you name it. I was the on-site supervision. We had plans drawn up, the plans are printed, the plans are in each space, but somehow still, I was having to tell them where to put the outlets, I was having to tell them how high up, I’m having to tell them which rooms to paint, what paint color to use after it’s all in the text thread with who I thought was the project manager, I don’t really know, on our project. So all the information is there, but I’m having to go out and guide them through the process and then I go through and I look at our contract and it’s broken out by all these different areas, but there’s no line item that says project management. There’s no line item that says supervision.

But I would imagine on a project that there would be someone directing these crews and these guys and these subcontractors and trades and telling them what goes where. But no, it was me. It was me and it has been me. I even specifically requested a project manager. There was tile that was installed and it’s a geometric pattern and it looked like I tried to do it myself. The spacing was uneven, the corners were not bookended, there was grout bursting out everywhere, there was overlap in the triangles. I mean it was really, really, really, really, really bad. And I sent pictures to the contractor and they’re like, “There’s no way to tell that …” Oh, this leads us to another segment. But they’re like, “There’s no way to tell if a tile installation was bad based on pictures.” ChatGPT disagrees, and boy did I get a lot of info when the photos and asked ChatGPT to act as the foremost authority in tile installation and review this tile installation. And I got a lot of info. More on that tile later.

But fast-forward to, they tore it all out. They redid it. I said, “I have a tile expert. This pattern is very complicated and difficult. It needs to be installed by a tile expert.” They said, “We have a guy.” I’m like, “Well, I really request supervision. I don’t want to be the one telling them they need to tear it out if it doesn’t look good, I want the corners bookended. I want this done properly.” They said, “We got you. No problem.” Since there had been no supervision this entire project, I specifically requested it. Project manager showed up 20 minutes before the tile guy left. Tile guy gets here, I’ve got to walk the tile guy through it. He’s going to start the line where the counter meets the backsplash in the middle of a pattern with teeny tiny circles where I’m like, “You can’t cut through those circles. That’s the problem. You’ve got to start somewhere else.” And then he is like, “Oh, okay.” He doesn’t speak English. He has his son on the phone. The son is the actual tile installer. The dad was just going to lay it out.

Like you guys, it goes on and on. There was no supervision. I asked for the supervision. The guy said, “I was there. What are you talking about? I was there at 11:00.” I’m like, “Well, the tile guy got here at 11:00 and I walked him through.” He is like, “Well, excuse me, 10:45. I talked to him on the phone.” Things like this, people, things like this. I’m not being a Karen, but I had to do the supervision. That was a whole other piece when supervision was requested. So setting that expectation with homeowners. Are you going to be there once a week? Are you going to be there on site? Are you going to be there in the morning before the crews get to work? I don’t know what’s normal. I don’t know what’s average. I know that I’ve had to do it this entire project and it’s been painful. So lessons learned.

Amanda Joyce:

So again, yes, lessons learned, lessons learned on Devon’s side, but also if you’re listening to this and it’s making your skin crawl imagining delivering an experience like this to a customer, all of this is just ripe with content and messaging that you can address and position yourself as the contractor that won’t leave someone feeling like this. So it’s everyone’s worst nightmare. No one wants to be on the contractor side of this where you’re just continuously disappointing the homeowner and no one wants to be the homeowner constantly being disappointed and feeling like they didn’t make the safe choice.

Devon Hayes:

Yeah. So just setting that expectation. As we moved into this other phase, we’re like, “Can you guys just give us an update on what’s going to be done on Monday so we know when we should have someone home or what’s going on?” And then what happened on Friday, not really holding anyone’s feet to the fire on a strict timeline because it’s construction. Stuff happens. I don’t know. But just someone saying, “Hey, we’re going to have the electricians this day. We’re expecting glass on Tuesday. We’ll install carpet on Friday.” Something, but we got nothing. So I don’t know, just whatever that messaging is for you guys, however you do it or however you aim to do it. Again, sometimes stuff happens.

But I personally think that these guys scaled really fast and took on a lot of work all at once, and we’re not the big addition, we’re not the custom build, and so we’re just kind of getting left in the dust even though we have a whole kitchen we’re going to want to remodel at some point. It just sucks. So how do you position yourself and how do you make sure that you guys internally have a process so this doesn’t happen? And then shout about it from the rooftops. I mean, a little communication goes a long way. I think inherently most humans are understanding and if you just tell them, “This is delayed, this is why. This is what’s happening.” Cool. They don’t feel like they’re forgotten about.

Amanda Joyce:

Exactly. “Or even our best crew is finishing another project. Are you okay to wait a week?” Most people would say, absolutely.

Devon Hayes:

Take your time.

Amanda Joyce:

I will wait my turn.

Devon Hayes:

Yeah. So that’s huge. I think that’s like the soup to nuts, nuts and bolts. The simplest form in construction, you can win with communication, with the simplest form of communication. It’s not the coolest software, fixed price model software and scheduling that shows you everything. Although I would love to do that in the future, by the way, because that takes care of half the communication. The homeowner can just log in and look, but it is just you. It’s just texting that or your PM texting that or having on-site supervision, just making people feel like you give a damn and hopefully you really do give a damn. Okay. I think I’ve belabored that point pretty well.

Okay. The other piece that I’ve learned along the way that maybe this is something you guys can talk to your customers about, maybe you do, maybe you don’t. My dad told me that there’s plenty of tile he won’t even install. He’ll tell homeowners, “Nope, you got to hire someone to do it because it’s so complicated.” Material choices. I didn’t know when I picked the damn tile that I was apparently choosing the Mac Daddy of complicated tiles and it wasn’t your simple subway tile install, which probably a lot of people could do. And what I chose was a geometric pattern, but I chose that from the beginning. All along, it’s not news. I didn’t change it in the last minute and the tile guy showed up and saw this pattern.

Material selection. Talk to your customers about material selection. Do a pros and cons list. Make sure you get those upfront and tell them, say, “This tile is beautiful. Did you know that this is natural stone? You’re going to have to seal it at least once a year if you go with marble versus a manufactured looking stone.” Educating customers about material selection and talking about that upfront, I think that would’ve been really good info. With our slab, sometimes you get charged by the square foot, sometimes you get charged by the slab. We didn’t know this, so we got charged for the entire slab. Yet when we were not given the remainder of the slab, which turns out it’s half a slab of this quartz. I’m like, “Well shit, give me my slab then.” But if I didn’t ask the question, they weren’t going to give it to me because my dad was, again, contractor was like, “Well, are you charged by the square foot or by the slab?” So then I have to ask our contractor, then he tells me we’re charged by the slab.

And if I didn’t ask that question, there’s a whole half a slab of some very nice quartz that just would’ve been sitting with the fabricator. So I think that transparency upfront would go a long way. When you’re talking to a homeowner and you’re saying, okay, as you go through this process, here’s some questions to ask your contractor, I never would’ve known to ask that. And they should know too, “If you choose this tile, we’re going to need to get an expert installer over one of the crews who could do subway tile all day.” So I think that would be a great way to get ahead and build trust with customers from the jump is talking through material and material selections. That could be a whole section in your brochure with them and how it impacts pricing, timing and … Yeah, pricing and time.

Amanda Joyce:

The ultimate outcome. When we redid our bathroom, I went and purchased all of this subway tile that I wanted in a herringbone like this, and then when the tile person came out to the house, we had to position it differently. Maybe he was just blowing smoke, but he was like, “These have actually been cut from a bigger tile, so they’re imperfect. So it’s really hard to do a very intricate design with it and for it to not just eventually look off.” So anyway, we had to go with a totally different design. We already had all the tile on site and he was there to do it. So I had to be like, okay. And now every time I go in that shower, I look at it and it disappoints me, but I wasn’t told that ahead of time, and had my contractor told me that we would’ve spent whatever we had to get the end result we wanted. So just underscoring what you’re saying. I still like the contractor, but it was just disappointing.

Devon Hayes:

Yeah. Yeah. That’s another tile my dad was like, “If someone wants herringbone, I say no,” but he’s a grumpy old man. But towards the end there he was like no, because it is imperfect. Even when you buy the tile pattern that is already kind of in that herringbone shape, apparently it’s a big pain to install. But if your contractor knows that going into it then, and you as a homeowner should know, oh God, this could be complicated.

Amanda Joyce:

I would’ve just picked a different tile or maybe gone with something … because if I couldn’t have had it in herringbone the way I wanted it, I would’ve probably just done something completely different and pivoted. But you live and you learn.

Devon Hayes:

Yeah, material selections. Taking the time with the homeowner up front, that’s freaking huge. That would’ve made a world of difference.

Amanda Joyce:

And just opening up even the lines of communication to let them know, “Okay, now we’re sending you out into the world to pick stuff. Keep this in mind and ask me before you … If this is your ultimate, what you’re trying to achieve, just make sure you check with us before you have it all delivered to your house that we’re going to be able to get you where you want to go.”

Devon Hayes:

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. The things you learn, life experience. There’s nothing like it. And then something else. And guys, this one, the transparency on pricing and change orders. So the original contract detailed very clearly what was included under each headline. Change order number one comes in, detailed very clearly. We saw the number, these 10 items are included in change order 1. Loved it, very transparent. Moving on. Then we get another invoice like requesting a progress payment. And the line item just … It says the words, “Change order two” and a big lump sum. Unlike change order 1, that was change order 1, lump sum, these 10 items are under change order 1. So change order number two looks real arbitrary. Looks like they’re trying to …

As a homeowner, here’s my perspective of what it looks like. You’re trying to make up for a lot of the costs for having to completely tear out and redo the stairs after you installed them once, completely tear out and take the handrail out after you’ve installed the stairs and the treads were on there. So I had no doubt you had to do the bending in a shop somewhere. I will say to their credit, every contractor told me, “You can’t install a handrail after the treads have been installed.” And they did, and it looks beautiful, but I feel like there’s just costs that they’re trying to recoup hidden under this lump sum blanket headline, change order number two. And oh my God, you guys, the things that have been damaged along the way and they’ve had to come back and fix the stairs that were new, that have gotten scratched up that they’ve had to come back and fix.

I know that there’s costs, and this guy is like, “Oh my God, I hate this project.” We’re at the point where he hates us and we hate him, and that’s fine and we’ll love each other at the end of the project. But it’s stressful. The transparency does not lend itself to your … Lack of transparency I guess. He’s losing credibility, the tone in his texts, the nasty responses in the reviews, this lump sum on a bill, the timeline, which is now we’re at, like I said, going on 20 weeks here, the trust is now eroded to the point where I don’t just want to give you a progress payment check. It’s gone. So however you guys do your pricing, I’m sure you detail it out and none of you do this, but that is the fastest way to erode trust. You’re demanding money from me, but you’re not telling me what is included in this magic new number that just appeared out of nowhere. Trust eroded, my friends.

Amanda Joyce:

Yeah. Okay, perfect. So I think we should, let’s talk about AI and then we’ll wrap up with a little bit of a marketing tip for you guys, but hopefully thus far you’re finding, Devon had a lot to get off her chest today. But also I really want to think that it’s helping you guys. A lot of times you’re so on your own … You’re on the contractor side and you’re not seeing it. You’re only probably getting the annoyed text from the client. But to hear a real life horror story of what can go on if someone’s living in a construction zone for, did you say 20 weeks now? 19?

Devon Hayes:

Almost 20 weeks. If this were a baby, it would have fingerprints right now. It’s never any-

Amanda Joyce:

Only a few more weeks, and yeah, the baby could live outside the womb. It wouldn’t be ideal but it could.

Devon Hayes:

During the holidays … It could. I gave up my house during the holidays because they promised me it would be done by Christmas, like the entryway. But I did get a lot off my chest. So, okay, you guys, AI and how homeowners are using AI. Here’s how I used AI. I touched on it earlier. In this age of cancel culture in Karens, I’m like, maybe I’m being too particular about this tile installation. So I sent it to the contractor. I’m like, “This is unacceptable. This is terrible.” And they’re like … I’m on spring break. And the week before they were sick, so no one had been at my house for 16 days to look at anything, which is par for the course with these guys. They said, “There’s no way to tell looking at pictures that the tile install was bad. I’ll look at it when I’m back from vacation.”

I’m like, “Is that so?” I uploaded it to ChatGPT. I’d mentioned this earlier. I gave it a prompt. I said, “Act as the foremost authority in tile and tile installation, and please assess the job and provide a critique. And if there are improvements or repairs to be made, provide a punch list.” You guys, AI spit out some shit. It was so detailed, so good. It talked about the spacing, it talked about how some areas had an 8th of an inch, quarter of an inch, 16th of an inch. It talked about uneven cuts, it talked about the broken tiles, it talked about how the corners were not bookended, it talked about over-grouting, it talked about bald spots and holes and all these other things that I hadn’t even noticed and then I read through that.

And that was based on the same six images that I sent to the contractor who told me that there was no way to assess a tile installation job based on photographs. Not to mention the exposed wire that the installer pulled out from the undermount lighting and looped through a circle in the pattern. That alone is not code and should have been a bit of red flag to my contractor. But again, I’m just the dumb lady brain and I don’t understand construction. So I used AI with that.

And the other way I used AI because now we are coming down to the last 15, 20% of the project, contractor wants that progress payment, and he’s like, “The terms of our contract are very clear.” I’m like, “Well, are they?” So I’ve uploaded every invoice, the contract, the change orders, every piece of documentation we’ve received, and I asked ChatGPT to act as the foremost authority and attorney in construction litigation and let me know what my rights are as the homeowner and what my options are with this progress payment as there are so many outstanding items that I’m like, I don’t feel comfortable giving them all, but 10% of the final payment. And I’m pulling it up now. It pulled out key points from the contract, what it says about change orders. It has helped me out immensely.

Amanda Joyce:

Immensely.

Devon Hayes:

It’s like you don’t know payment unless every item detailed on the invoice has been completed, which you guys, nothing is completed. Nothing is completed yet. Not one room. No, no, no. The laundry. The laundry, the cabinet. The laundry room’s done.

Amanda Joyce:

The change order’s done.

Devon Hayes:

No. No.

Amanda Joyce:

I guess I was just meaning, I know that. But you were like, it was just a little tiny little add on at the end. That’s the only thing you can say is done amongst all the other things.

Devon Hayes:

So anyway, you guys, take your own contracts and act like you’re a frustrated homeowner and run it through ChatGPT, and maybe you’ll find holes in your own contracts. Maybe you’ll find something else that you need to add to the language to protect yourself, add something else that also protects the homeowner and maybe highlight that during the process when you’re sitting down and going over numbers and say, “We have this clause in here. This protects you from us not completing the work, but this also protects us in this way.” So run your contracts through ChatGPT and tell it to act like a pissed-off homeowner who works in law, and see what it spits out. And I think that could be … That’s how I’ve used AI in this process. So maybe, yeah, that’s something you can do. And then you protect yourself, you protect the homeowner and during the sales process, call those things out. Because that is more of that transparency and more of that trust-building.

You guys, you’ve done this a long time, but I wanted to share because it gives you my perspective as the homeowner, but also someone who works in marketing and sees all these opportunities for you to make yourselves better than the next guy by communicating this and what you can do throughout the process. I know with Amanda and I, we get head down and we don’t see the forest through the trees in marketing, and with websites and things that we’re rolling out, whereas you as the outsider could say, “Hey, slow down. You’re talking over my head. I don’t know this jargon.” And we’re like, “Oh my God, I wish someone would’ve told us that. I feel so bad. That was not the intention.” It’s kind of like this, maybe this. Maybe you learn a little something along the way. And I feel like I had a therapy session about my nightmare remodel.

Amanda Joyce:

Yes. And notice we’re continuing to stay above board and not mention said contractor, but I know it felt good for Devon to be able to get this out. And one of the things that we were talking about too before we hopped on was, okay, how do we tie this to some things you guys can walk away with for your marketing? And to Devon’s point, even in the sales process, talking people through your contract and helping point out some of those things that maybe the next guy they’re going to be comparing you to won’t have in there to protect both of you. But also consider coming up with maybe a leave behind or a piece of marketing material for questions they should be asking when they’re inevitably chatting with another contractor that they might go with. So that if you do have a fixed price model, explain why that would be important. We love those kind of questionnaires because it gives you the opportunity to ask a smart question and then just provide a little bit of insight as to why you would be the right choice, if that’s a priority for them.

Will I have a dedicated project manager? How often will they be on site? All of those things that Devon didn’t necessarily know upfront to ask, but if you do do that and you do go that extra mile, that’s a great spot to brag about and to arm them, so they talk about building some trust with them so that then when they are overwhelmed and they’re inevitably sitting down and looking at three contracts that probably have very different price points and very different things line-itemed, hopefully, that you’ll ultimately end up being the one they go with. Because you’ve built that trust and positioned yourself as the guy that’s not going to leave somebody feeling the way Devon feels right now.

Devon Hayes:

Yeah. Next time I think I would get three bids. I would upload those contracts to ChatGPT, ask it to compare them, and give me pros and cons of each contractor. I would also take, Amanda, what you just said, creating that downloadable or that brochure that’s like, “This is what you should ask.” Ask and answer those questions on your Google Business Profile. When you’re logged in, you can ask a question and answer it as yourself. Somebody else doesn’t have to answer it. So ask and answer all those questions right there and send some signals to Google as well because … The things I wish I knew. The things I wish I knew.

So yeah, hopefully you guys got some good takeaways from this and it gives you some insight and maybe some things you can refine internally in your businesses just hearing a different perspective on it. The unhappy homeowner perspective. All right, well, thank you for listening. As always, you can find us on social, comment on the YouTube video. I would love to answer questions. And if you want, I’ll share those pictures of the tile install so you can give me your professional opinion, how you would assess the tile install based on photos alone. All right. I think that’s all. We’ll see you next time.

Amanda Joyce:

That was today’s trade secret. Thanks for listening.

Devon Hayes:

Did you find this helpful? We’re just getting started.

Amanda Joyce:

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Devon Hayes:

Until next time.